Greg Stucker is Goodyear’s Director of Racing. He’s the one who came out and spoke with the media during the race at Bristol when the tires were experiencing excessive falloff. I sat down with him before the race at Texas and we discussed a variety of topics, including what happened at Bristol, if anything has been identified as the cause for that situation (there has), the more aggressive approach NASCAR and Goodyear are taking going forward, and an idea I proposed about using different compounds like F1 and IndyCar.
Beating & Banging: So I guess let’s start with that. Let’s go back to Bristol if we could. And is there any news on it? I know y’all didn’t pee in the compound as Denny suggested.
Goodyear Director of Racing Greg Stucker: That’s his way of saying something was different. I think we all recognize something was different. The question is what was different enough to make the result that we saw? So, obviously, anytime something like that happens, we did run that same setup in the fall of last year, right? And our intent was to take exactly the same tire back because it performed well. And so that was our intent. So, with the result, as it was, the first thing we do is say, ‘Okay, did we actually get what we spec’d? Was there anything different?’
So, that night, our guys started talking to the plant, talking to our material specialists, saying, ‘Okay, look, go back and look at all the materials that went into that batch of tires. Was there anything different?
B&B: And there’s a wide variety of combinations, right?
Stucker: There’s a huge, a huge number of oils and resins. You got fabric, I mean you got different compounds throughout the tire, right? All that stuff is released to certain specs. We have all that, right? Just like any manufactured product is. So we go back and pour through that information and just make sure everything was exactly as we expected and it was okay. So that’s check number one. Make sure we have exactly what we plan to have. Sure. And we did that, right? The rest is, okay, what did change? We talked to the racetrack, we talked to SMI, right? I think you’ve got to recognize one of the differences, and nobody really thought about it, but for the last three races, last three years, that race in the spring has been on the dirt.
So that racetrack has sat with dirt on it through the winter in preparation for our race in the spring. It didn’t this year, right? It sat exposed, right? And we were the first ones on the track this season, right? Now, when we race in in the fall, like last year, 2023, we raced on the dirt that got cleared off. The racetrack gets cleaned. There’s other races. There’s a Truck race, there’s an Xfinity race, there’s practice for each of those, there’s practice for Cup, and then the Cup race happens, right? This year, there was nothing ahead of time, then it was only the Trucks, right? And it’s a shorter race than the Xfinity race, and then the Cup race.
It was also cooler than it was. Minimally, but it was cooler.
B&B: How much temperature?
Stucker: Probably five degrees is all. So is that a factor? Again, it’s minimal. But I think we’ve come to the conclusion that it was just a number of different factors. It wasn’t any one particular item that created the wear that we saw there. It’s just that it’s that marginal on a concrete racetrack. The other item that is different was the track was treated with a different material than it was previous years resin instead of PJ1. So what is the impact of that PJ1, once the once cars run through it, do they carry it up the racetrack as they start to move up to racetrack?
So does that help the race, the rest of the racetrack rubber in? I think the answer to that is probably yes. So we think there’s just a number of different factors that kind of created this. I’m not going to call it a perfect storm, but this perfect situation that created what we saw.
B&B: So let me make sure I can, we kind of try to pinpoint those factors or at least identify them roughly. So the dirt being on there, right, previously, and you had no racing on the track at all. So that was one.
Stucker: The green racetrack.
B&B: Five degrees temperature difference. And then the resin versus, cause it was PJ1 or resin?
Stucker: It was resin this year. It was PJ1 in previous years.
B&B: Okay. And y’all didn’t want to do the PJ1 because under wet conditions it made it super slick.
Stucker: It makes it slick.
B&B: Whereas the resin in wet conditions would be okay.
Stucker: It would be okay. Right. So that was more of a call between NASCAR and with our input that we all agree that can create a situation with PJ1. Yes.
B&B: So do you do an autopsy on it?
Stucker: Well, we’re gonna go back and test. So we’re gonna go back and test in July. Now the input from everyone, fans included, is don’t change anything. It was okay. Okay, well, in our mind wearing tires as quickly as we did, or as early as we did, that’s a bit much, right? And I said that right from the start. And everybody’s input was, ‘Okay, we get that, but boy, just don’t change it drastically. It was okay.
So the first thing we’ll do is we’ll go back there and we’ll put that same tire on the ground. It’s going to be different conditions, right? It’s going to be July in Bristol. It’s going to be hot. And so if that, if that racetrack takes rubber as we expect it to, okay, well then we kind of have our answer.
B&B: So it won’t wear as much as what you’re expecting?
Stucker: Correct. Right.
B&B: Okay. Because I also know in talking to Mike Forde (NASCAR Managing Director of Racing Communications) I asked him the question, because I can’t remember who was saying it, (John) Probst or someone, about how they initially had 11 sets and pulled it back to 10 because that’s what they had last year (in the fall), but numerous teams had extra sets of tires, so they pulled it back.
So it actually did turn out to be kind of the perfect storm with that combination of factors. If they had had the 11 sets initially, it really wouldn’t have been an issue. People wouldn’t have been scrambling, right?
Stucker: Well, I don’t think it would have changed things drastically. The only difference was we mounted that set during the race whereas before, it would have been mounted ahead of time, right? Okay, but that’s not going to change the amount of wear that we saw when people could change. I think it just made it more tolerable to get to the end of the race that way.
B&B: Okay, so we’ll go to July and test at Bristol. So, this is what I was talking to Mike, and I was talking to the drivers. So, I asked Joey, and what I was saying is, is there the possibility of, let’s just, this is just a far-fetched idea, but it’s something I came up with was, on Monday, based on what Denny Hamlin said, okay, get Dale Jr. or someone out on Mondays and then Tuesdays and Wednesdays for the foreseeable future, we have drivers from teams testing the cars and we’re gonna fix this and we’re gonna test until we fix it, right? Not do tests in six months.
Stucker: What are you fixing?
B&B: Well, again, and that was what I was going to come back to is I don’t even know what we’re fixing or what the testing is. I’m more concerned about the scheduling of it. And so I presented it to Bob. I said, so what would you think of this? And he said, well, the tire compounds, how long it takes them to make everything. And so that’s really kind of what I want to get a sense is from you guys. Is it possible? Just, just play along with me. We do the Junior or Harvick or someone who’s just a Monday tester and on Tuesday, Wednesday, it doesn’t really matter. I’m just trying to expedite the testing process.
Stucker: You’re just going out there and testing every week.
B&B: Trying to get it done, knock it out. So you know people are talking about taking away tracks from short track. So just to solve this problem and get resolution so it’s not dragging on and people are getting more angry and bitter about it because it is the short track. So is there a scenario where the process could be expedited when we’re not testing in July, we’re testing next month? You know what I’m saying?
Because that to me is what, that’s the delay and then you go and test and then it doesn’t work and then we have to wait another three months. And so it just seems like we’re just dragging it out. Again, total layman’s perspective. So why couldn’t it be expedited?
Stucker: Oh, again, I think it’s — yeah, you could do that. Okay, there’s testing rules in place that don’t allow that to happen right now. And so there used to be a whole lot more testing that went on all during the week. And NASCAR implemented rules to restrict that because the major teams got the advantage and the lower teams did not because they couldn’t afford, right? Just the differentiation in budgets, right? So there’s a rules issue you have to overcome, and the second part of that is, you know, whose car? Who preps the car? Is that going to be a Hendrick car? Is that going to be a Stewart-Haas car? You know, so whoever does that, they’ve got the obligation of doing that in addition to racing it.
Alright, is that going to be an advantage? Is it going to be a disadvantage? I think you’re better off having a normal cadence like we do and get different teams involved at different times. At our test, we have a Toyota, we have a Chevy, we have a Ford. And that gets rotated amongst the teams. With Toyota, a lot of times it’s going to be Gibbs because they’re the main one, right? Okay, but you know, it might be Penske or it might be Front Row or it’ll bounce around depending on the other cars.
And by doing that you get a lot of different feedback. So everybody gets in the loop, everybody has an opportunity to be part of it, to be part of the solution, to provide feedback. And so I think the important thing is you learn at races. So we learned something at Bristol, right? We learned something at Richmond when we put the wets on during the damp conditions. So, I think the important thing is, now, we sit down with NASCAR every week. We have a Tuesday call with NASCAR, and we talk about the previous week. Okay, and then, so we formulate a plan on what we’re doing next, right?
I think it’s good to be methodical about that and just keep addressing the problem, right? And I use the word problem. A lot of people think it’s a big problem. I happen to think it’s not a huge problem because really if you look at the racing throughout the pack, watch Richmond and there’s a lot of good racing going on all over the racetrack, right? Somebody may run away with it, okay? But that’s going to happen sometime, right?
I think what everybody likes about Bristol is that the the drivers really had to manage the tires. The crew chiefs had to manage their strategy and they had to manage their drivers, right? So, I think that was what everybody enjoyed. You probably read Chris Gabehart’s comments. Now they won the race and all that, but I think still he was genuine about, I really had fun because I really impacted things and Denny really impacted things. And I think ultimately that’s where people want to get to, right?
And in some tracks it’s going to be easier to get to than others, right? So, that’s just what we’re trying to figure out. We’ve talked with NASCAR yesterday for about an hour, again this morning for about an hour. Talking about different things to try, different things to look at. We sat in with the drivers yesterday and, Michael McDowell said, ‘Gee, I was hoping you guys had the silver bullet. It’s just this one thing.’
It’s not. I think NASCAR has tried some things with the car itself, aero wise, right? And I think they made an improvement. I think the car is better since our Phoenix test at the end of last year, as we race it now on the short tracks. They’ve got some other things they’re looking at to do, right?
So it’s, even though a lot of people say it’s all about the tires, it’s all about the tires. It’s really not. It’s really about the total package. And so what we try to do is figure out, okay, how can tires play a role in that, right? And everybody likes to talk about tire fall off, right? You know, how much slower is it at the end of a run. Well, you know, if everybody’s on the same strategy, it’s going to fall off the same for everybody, right? And so, I think that’s what people liked about Bristol because you could make it worse than somebody else. You couldn’t hard right from the start.
B&B: Like Ty Gibbs.
Stucker: Like Ty Gibbs. He did. I think what we’re trying to figure out is what’s the right balance for that? Where do we want to get to? It’s not going to happen at every racetrack. I can tell you that. We’re going to go to North Wilkesboro for the All-Star Race and it’s a repave. Repaves typically have a lot of grip and there’s not going to be a lot of fall off, right?
So you just have to manage through it for different racetracks. Certain racetracks are going to be better than others. I mean, tire wear, tire fall off is greatly influenced by the track surface. No question. It’s greatly influenced by ambient conditions. If you run at night versus running in the daytime, I guarantee you will not have as much tire fall off as you.
B&B: Because everything gets hot.
Stucker: The racetrack gets hot. If you’re running on asphalt, the oils in the asphalt come to the surface. Everything is different.
B&B: So, wet tires. Okay, that obviously has been a big success. So kudos to you and NASCAR for doing that because that obviously has changed the whole game when it comes to wet, damp conditions, whatever we want to call them.
You obviously have heard people say, ‘Hey, we’ve got a wet tire that falls off. Why can’t we use something similar to that, even with the groove? Is that something that’s been discussed with NASCAR?
Stucker: And we’re trying to learn from that. What do we know about the wet tire that we can apply to track conditions, right? It’s not as simple as saying, ‘Okay, we’re just going to run the wet tire everywhere, right?’ Because it’s just not going to last. The wet tire is formulated to operate in those conditions – in cool, damp conditions. If you tried running that tire, I mean, you saw it at Richmond. When those tires came off, depending on the balance of the race car, they’re pretty chewed up, right? You would see the same thing with a slick. Now again, what can we learn from the formulation of that wet compound versus our dry compounds? Maybe there’s something we can apply to create more fall off, to create more temperature so there is more fall off or there’s more wear. So those are the sort of things that you try to do.
B&B: Okay, and then the one thing that I presented at COTA a few weeks back to Denny (Hamlin) and Brad (Keselowski) and they all liked the idea was 2017 at the All-Star Race, where there were multiple compounds to choose from, soft, hard, medium. To me, that seems like that could be an option, because then people could go, ‘Alright, I have this many sets of soft, I’m gonna blast it, I’m gonna get out front. And then in the back end, I’m not going to have those and I’m not going to have as much traction.’ So, am I crazy? Is that something that could be considered?
Stucker: We tried an option tire several years back for the All-Star and what happened was, for us, I think it was successful.
The split that we wanted to create, in agreement, was about three-tenths. Okay, we want the option tire to be about three-tenths faster than the prime. And it was, in the daytime. Then we got to nighttime and race, and that gap narrowed. So then, it didn’t become as big of an advantage.
But we have discussed that, right? So it is an option. It is something that’s been placed on the table. Again, it’s how much do we want to create? How are we going to manage it? Is that something you want to put into the hands of the teams? The NASCAR world is different than Formula 1 world — rules and everything else. So that would be something they would have to weigh in and see how much you really want to do that. But, no, that’s not beyond the realm of possibility I don’t think.
Certainly, like you said, as an experiment, right? We’re trying different things. Let’s try it at an event and see what happens. And then you kind of learn from there.
B&B: Well, Joey said on Sirius XM this week let’s take a big swing. Ryan Blaney said, we got to make drastic changes. I asked him yesterday. So it feels like this is that moment, that opportunity to like, let’s take a big swing at this. Let’s try to do something. Let’s try to replicate Bristol. But it feels like to me you guys, and this is what Ryan said yesterday, we just gotta keep throwing darts and hope one of them sticks, right?
Stucker: (Laughs) I prefer we’re shooting with a laser instead of just throwing it.
B&B: But it feels like that from the outside’s perspective because we don’t know all the details of what’s going on and we just hear from NASCAR, we’re doing a test here and you hear the drivers and you don’t always get a sense. Because I heard Dale Jr. — I think it was last year talking about it before the Phoenix tests is we gotta get drivers out there who know what they’re looking for. They’re not looking to find an advantage in their car. They’re looking to find out how the falloff is and how the car feels and the change and all that stuff. And so it feels like, like I said a while ago, it’s very nuanced. There can be all these things that people could have different motivations when they’re going into these tests and not necessarily see the things that are happening.
Stucker: So we tested last year at Loudon (New Hampshire) in preparation for that race. Came up with a package and we heard that message loud and clear. Take a big swing. Don’t be scared to overshoot it, right? So we’re taking that approach now. So we took a really big swing at Loudon and we raced that. And everybody thought that was a big gain, right? So that same compound is what we raced at Phoenix, in the spring — excuse me, in the fall and again this spring, right? And so I thinl what was a big change, now everybody kind of says, okay, well that’s not enough.
So what’s the next big change. So I think we are trying to change our philosophy and be more aggressive. There was always the understanding, I think, whether it came from us or from NASCAR or just, in general that, we’ll provide you guys with as much grip as we can, but we also want to make sure that we can run a full fuel stop. I think that’s kind of out the window. I think running a full fuel stop is not necessarily mandatory anymore. And that comes from TV, that comes from NASCAR, that comes from the drivers. Again, it’s back to let us manage it. And so that if you have a tire that can’t run a full fuel stop, that means tire management is going to be important.
Somebody might be able to stretch it, but a lot of guys probably don’t want to stretch it. They know there’s going to be a caution for something, so they’re going to push it harder.
B&B: Then the last one that I have, you came out and did the PR (at Bristol) and was on the broadcast, in the middle. And you hear all the time that Goodyear is afraid of the perception of their tires are being put on cars and they’re having blowouts. And I know y’all have the Indy situation. I was at Texas here a couple years ago when we were having the tires blow out in Turn 4. So I understand the perception of the general public and buying tires, but I’m just curious, and again, I don’t know, but it feels like that’s kind of a leap that, ‘Oh, those tires are blowing up.’
Because I would think, and maybe it’s because I do know more than maybe the average fan that they push the limits on these tires. They are testing them to their very edge, just like they are in a race car. So when they don’t inflate them to the proper recommendation that you guys give them, the things can happen and problems can ensue, but that’s not necessarily reflective of how the general populace would behave with the tires.
So when Goodyear is concerned about the PR side of it, that’s where I’m like, how does it really translate? Because as a fan, I’m going to buy a Goodyear cause I trust Goodyear as a tire, not because they’re racing tires are blowing up because these guys are really pushing it. So is that really a concern for you guys?
Stucker: Well, I think you got a couple different things, right? So, let’s go back to Texas here. Two years ago. Fairly early in the development of the Next Gen car, guys were really pushing the envelope, trying to get the rear of the car down, out of the air, and they were just being extremely aggressive on air pressures.
We knew that’s what it was, okay. And it was consistent. So Mike and I went to the media center and we told everybody, that’s exactly what it was. Okay, so we know that. That’s a different situation. I don’t mind going and telling people, here’s what it is. We know what’s happening. We try to give the guys as much information to make good decisions in their setups, but it’s a risk versus reward if they choose to go beyond, that’s on them. And as long as they own it, I don’t care. That’s fine. Okay. And so that’s one situation. If you go to Bristol a few weeks back, I think the thing that we didn’t like was it was unexpected.
It’s not what we expected to happen. Based on the race that we had in the fall of 2023, we expected the same result and that didn’t happen. So I think that is what we were concerned about. The uncertainty of what guys could expect. We don’t want to deliver that. If we went into that race and said, ‘You know, plan on 75 laps at the outset, that’s all you’re going to get. You got to plan accordingly.’ And we knew that, then it’s a different situation, right? But I think it was the unexpected. We like to think we know what we’re doing. We want people to think that we know what we’re doing. So we don’t like races like that because it’s a surprise.
So that’s the thing that we try to avoid, right? And if something happens on the racetrack because a team makes a decision that’s against what we recommend, okay, as long as they own it, that’s okay. That’s what racers do, right? They push an envelope on every part of the race car. So that’s okay.
B&B: But the former happens way more often than the latter.
Stucker: For sure.
B&B: You guys don’t get caught unaware of stuff happening like what happened at Bristol.
Stucker: Not very often.
B&B: So, I guess back to the original question is you’re not too terribly concerned of the general public going, ‘Oh my God, I’m not going to buy Goodyear tires because the tires are failing in the race.
Stucker: Not if that happens not very often. If that would happen a lot, yes, then I’m concerned about it, right? Because we race for brand image. And we want people to have confidence in Goodyear product because of what we’re able to deliver out here versus other things we do. So you don’t come out here and have bad days every week and expect there not to be some sort of repercussion.